Staal Trade Analysis

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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Pitts on Sat Jun 23, 2012 1:59 pm

BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:
Pitts wrote:
BurghersAndDogsSports wrote:We can partially evaluate after FA and have to wait years to see how it actually turns out.

Are you seriously going to care that far out?? Honestly, it was a solid move. Got a very good NHL player now, plus 2 solid prospects for a player who was leaving next season for nothing. There is nothing more to evaluate!


.... You won't be disappointed? ...

Lol...I probably won't remember the specifics, and thus won't care. As long as I can watch Pens hockey. :)
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Avyran on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:00 pm

Bob McKenzie wrote:I assumed when PIT made big moves to clear cap space, it was for a run at UFA Parise but it seems UFA Suter is more likely primary target.

Quoting from his twitter.

--- Edit: He just added this.
Contrary to rumors, tho, PIT management told me there are no plans to deal for Suter/Parise rights pre-July 1. Will take chances July 1.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Tico Rick on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:09 pm

Avyran wrote:
Bob McKenzie wrote:Contrary to rumors, tho, PIT management told me there are no plans to deal for Suter/Parise rights pre-July 1. Will take chances July 1.


If Suter is inclined to stay in the western conference, as is the rumor, and Parise is already sleeping over at Sid's house, no reason to waste assets either way.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Pitts on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:09 pm

Seth Rorabaugh ‏@emptynetters

Caps GM George McPhee on any potenial interest in J. Staal: "They (Penguins) didn't want to talk to us."

Nice! I read also that Ribiero was the "plan B" to Staal.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Kraftster on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:21 pm

So Staal/his representatives (possibly) force a trade to one specific team by leaking information and there's no disrespect or disloyalty in that, but Jagr is forever a villain for "dying alive." Okay.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Tico Rick on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:25 pm

I think everyone realizes the Pens didn't have enough ice time to give to someone of Staal's calibre; Jagr, on the other hand, had it all and could have been King of Pittsburgh.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Kraftster on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:43 pm

I don't buy the distinction. Staal had the second highest TOI/g last year among forwards. 27th in the league. Perhaps he wanted to be used differently (notable that many indications were he was going to be this year in Pittsburgh), but its not really time on ice that he needs. Staal wanting to be used differently not really any different than Jagr not wanting to play a certain system, is it?

But it would go something like since Staal deserves a bigger role he can sap his trade value and force a trade by leaking comments but since Jagr had it all he can't voice his feelings and request a trade?
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby scpensfan on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:46 pm

Maybe I'm too far removed, but it just seemed to me that Staal was about 150% less ******** about the situation.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Kraftster on Sat Jun 23, 2012 2:59 pm

Meh, I'm probably more combative about this than I mean to be. I just don't see how people can have a hard time understanding the hard feelings over how this went down.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Tico Rick on Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:40 pm

Well I've never been in the "let's boo Jagr" camp, but I do see a distinction between the two. One, Staal needs only to look at the age and quality of the two centers in front of him to see that this would always be an issue as long as he wore a Penguin uniform. His TIO was high this year, but Sid was out most of the year too.[I really don't know how his TIO in games with and without Sid compares.] Unlike Staal, Jagr was the captain and king of that Penguin team. Maybe both players disliked how their coach used them - and that could have been a legitmate grievance in each case. But Staal never told the press in the middle of the year that he was "dying alive." In fact, just the opposite - he never has publicly complained about anything, to my knowledge. He rejected a nice 10-year offer, but even then he is not the one who leaked that info to the press - the Pens' front office did. I think it's totally understandable that fans would react differently to the vastly different comportment of these two talented players.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Puck Drama on Sat Jun 23, 2012 3:59 pm

Staal's departure sent Shero's only successful draft pick packing. Shero traded up with no plan and the team is not as good as it was going into the draft. Maybe if he gets Suter or Parise this balances out.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Lesky on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:14 pm

Kraftster wrote:So Staal/his representatives (possibly) force a trade to one specific team by leaking information and there's no disrespect or disloyalty in that, but Jagr is forever a villain for "dying alive." Okay.


Logic argument aside - there is special hatred for Jagr that you have to weigh in. Not a very classy move by Staal to be fair - just **** the Penguins over :thumbdown:
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:28 pm

Puck Drama wrote:Staal's departure sent Shero's only successful draft pick packing. Shero traded up with no plan and the team is not as good as it was going into the draft. Maybe if he gets Suter or Parise this balances out.


I couldn't disagree more. Shero's only successful draft picking? Despres, Morrow and Harrington were great selections under Shero's tenure. Obviously that remains to be seen, but all signs point in the direction that those guys are going to be serious NHL players.

Saying Shero had "no plan" isn't fair at all. GMs in this situation can't always operate in a methodical sense. Sometimes GMs have to just act, Shero did, and I don't think we could have gotten a better trade. Whether or not the Penguins are not as good remains to be seen. Obviously Sutter isn't not on the same level of Staal, but that doesn't mean that team's dynamic doesn't remain in tact. While I liked Michalek, a weak link in the D-core has been removed. Also, and this may sound silly, there are fewer question marks with Staal gone. The Penguins can concentrate on the 1-2 punch of Malkin and Sid. Their line-up is much more straight forward.

Also, while Shero may have had to act under pressure, I think there is/was a plan in place. Trading Michalek was a salary dump, meaning the Pens intend to make more moves. I think the Penguins are going to witness one of the most exciting off-seasons in a very long time as far as fans who love to see their team make lots of moves. Shero has obviously known about the Staal situation for a bit. The trade that occurred has been in speculation for a few weeks now.

Mark my words on the following three possibilities that will occur:
1. Parise or Suter WILL be a Pittburgh Penguin come the beginning of next season if either player has any interest in coming here.
2. If those options are not executable, the Penguins will make a trade with Anaheim that has Bobby Ryan coming here and either Martin or Orpik going there.
3. The other possibility, and this is the most unlikely, but still possible as all things are: The Penguins will move either Martin or Orpik to dump salary, sign Parise and either Suter or Matt Carle.

We were told that Shero would not trade Martin as a salary dump because they don't believe in that and only make "hockey trades"...Michalek was traded as a salary dump.

We were told Staal WOULD NOT be traded at the draft.

We're now told that Shero is not looking to trade any more roster players...but will hear all options and be open to all possibilities. That statement right there is as blatant as you can get from any GM without them flat out saying they're going to move more players.


Shero is not done, he's a far better GM than people on this board give him credit for. Sometimes things just don't pan out the way people hope, i.e. signing Martin and Michalek. I think by the time camp rolls around, Penguin fans are going to be more excited than they have been in a long time to see their team play.

Truthfully, I'm shocked Shero got as much as he did. In the other Staal post I stated at the point the Penguins knew Carolina was the only team he'd sign with right now that the Pens no longer had leverage and should be happy if they JUST got a 1st round pick. I'm glad to be wrong.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Tico Rick on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:29 pm

Puck Drama wrote:Staal's departure sent Shero's only successful draft pick packing. Shero traded up with no plan and the team is not as good as it was going into the draft. Maybe if he gets Suter or Parise this balances out.


Shero got a crate of lemons on Thursday and he made lemonade on Friday. If he gets Suter AND Parise (which is certainly possible if he can unload Martin), the Pens will be significantly better than there were at season's end.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Rylan on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:32 pm

Sutter > Staal for the purposes the Penguins require. That is all.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Hugo Stiglitz on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:32 pm

I would also like to add that Shero trading for Vokoun is HUGE. So again, saying this team isn't as good going in is pretty far from the truth. Having a goalie tandem like we have now is a major strength.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby penny lane on Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:51 pm

"It's an opportunity for me to show what I can do offensively," he said. "It's a new challenge for me. I'm excited to get a lot of wins, make the playoffs and see what we can do."



Read more here: http://blogs.newsobserver.com/canes/sta ... rylink=cpy
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby pfim on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:10 pm

Puck Drama wrote:Staal's departure sent Shero's only successful draft pick packing. Shero traded up with no plan and the team is not as good as it was going into the draft. Maybe if he gets Suter or Parise this balances out.


You say he has no plan in your second sentence, and then state his likely plan in your third?
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby itissteeltime on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:14 pm

FWIW - If you guys comb through the Canes forums, there arent a ton of people who they think they won this trade. They all think they gave up too much.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Pitts on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:16 pm

itissteeltime wrote:FWIW - If you guys comb through the Canes forums, there arent a ton of people who they think they won this trade. They all think they gave up too much.

They did. I love it!
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby KG on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:26 pm

itissteeltime wrote:FWIW - If you guys comb through the Canes forums, there arent a ton of people who they think they won this trade. They all think they gave up too much.


I guess....Rutherford also didn't want to hold Shero's feet to the fire I'm sure. These GM's like to keep good relationships with each other. Shero also played it right by negotiating with other teams to maximize Staal's value.

It was a fair trade. Staal is the best player in the deal and will sign a long term extension I'm sure.

If I was a Canes fan, I'd have no problem with the trade...
Last edited by KG on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby FallenHero96 on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:29 pm

Now watch Staal go to Carolina, play out the year, realize he hates it, goes UFA and signs in Pittsburgh.... our plan worked perfectly :twisted:
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby pfim on Sat Jun 23, 2012 5:30 pm

itissteeltime wrote:FWIW - If you guys comb through the Canes forums, there arent a ton of people who they think they won this trade. They all think they gave up too much.


I think those people are crazy. Staal's production will only go up imo, and you'll still get the size and defensive play. They gave up a lot but they're getting a lot.
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby Pavel Bure on Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:33 pm

Puck Drama wrote:Staal's departure sent Shero's only successful draft pick packing. Shero traded up with no plan and the team is not as good as it was going into the draft. Maybe if he gets Suter or Parise this balances out.
Love it
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Re: Staal Trade Analysis

Postby owtahear on Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:54 pm

I will go one step further. It is my opinion and estimation that Jordan was done being a 3rd line checking center this year. He knows he is better than this and because of this Staal in this role grew a bit complacent. Also, last year when they needed Staal to be a #1 guy and carry the team against Tampa Bay, he couldn't.

Ray Shero did well here.
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